Empowering Breast Cancer Patients with Digital Fitness - Jennifer Johnson

heh heh, yo! don't be confused by the rocks that I got, this is The Glow Up, Fabulous conversations with innovative minds. I'm Nathan C and today I'm talking with Jennifer Johnson of JennJ Health and Fitness. she is the founder and CEO there. Jennifer, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm so glad to make this connection.

Thank you, Nathan. I appreciate the invite. I'm happy to be here.

Okay, perfect. So, Jennifer, we met in the forums around the health, community, and, While I have lots of conversations with folks in the augmented and virtual reality world, a lot of people don't know that health tech is one of my special interests. So I'm so excited to be having this conversation with you today. Can you tell me a little bit about what you do in innovation and technology and describe the core problem space that you're working on?

Absolutely. So I'm in the digital health space. I have over 15 years experience in digital health and operations, working particularly around oncology. my career has really been focused on health equity, equity and access is providing equitable care and access to all. And then it's such a big problem to have. But, most recently, JennJ Health is, really focused on our flagship product, which is Fitness Can. It's a health and fitness app that's designed to support breast cancer patients before, during, and after treatment. And, this really came about because I, myself, actually three years ago this month was diagnosed with triple negative breast cancer. And it was a surprise to me because I was, under 40, what I consider probably the fittest I've ever been in my life. I'm an avid hiker, I'm a runner, I'm a fitness coach, all the things. And to be diagnosed at such a young age was a surprise to me. But, triple negative was also like, you know, it's one of those diagnoses is that less than 10 percent of breast cancer patients have it. But it's disproportionately affects women of color and because of that, black women are 40 percent more likely to die from breast cancer. So I was just blown by all the data, right? And having a background in analytics, I was diving right into it, but, kind of coupling together the 2, is how I got here today. I started my first treatment in November of 2021, and I had all the plans, you know, with an oncologist about the chemo, the radiation, all in the month. The first thing, it sounds so cliche, I asked my oncologist, like, well, can I still work out? Can I still teach? You know, and he was like, You know, track it, you know, I don't know. I don't have anything to like give you guidelines for, but just track yourself. And so I did, and I have, you know, 15 years experience in data analytics. So I tracked myself across all platforms. I went through chemo. I had like, 22 weeks of chemotherapy, 36 rounds of radiation. And during that time I was able to, and it looked different, right? I wasn't hiking 10 miles, like, you know, like a Saturday, but maybe it was a hike around the living room or, you know, whatever, but I moved and studies show that you have like 40 percent better outcomes if you are active during treatment. So I made sure I was active every day in some way, and I was able to track that using spreadsheets, multiple web apps, and just all the different things. But Fitness Can is really a solution for that. So if I had this three years ago, this would have been my go to, this would have been my Bible, you know, I would have really stuck with this. So that's really how it was just born and evolved. a year ago. And then God really put it in my spirit. Like I have, I kind of have to do this. So it wasn't, it wasn't my goal to be an entrepreneur and like, I've been in corporate last 15 years, but you know, this is what he wants me to do. So I'm doing it. I'm just being, you know, faithful and doing it. It's not easy, but, I have a really great team around me. So I'm really excited to launch it this year.

Wow, congratulations, on the innovation journey and taking that jump. 30 something rounds of treatment sounds like a pretty, intense, long term, treatment cycle.

All the things.

I'm, I'm so glad that you're here, to share the story, now with us. Can you tell us a little bit more about, the FitnessCan app and what that experience might be like?

Absolutely. so it, it's really, a compilation of all the things I had in my head and in, you know, spreadsheets and stuff But what it is, is a platform that connects with your wearables. So if you have, I use an, Apple Watch, but you can do Fit Bit or Garmin. It connects with the wearable to get all your fitness data. So your heart rate. your CO2 max, your steps, anything like that. So that's all linked through that. most people that are already active, at least in my space, are tracking it somehow. Like, if you don't track it, it didn't happen, right? So a lot of people are already tracking anyway. the difference with FitnessCan, it really layers in the other things that we have to look at going through treatment and after treatment. This app will also do, we have a journal that tracks the medications you take before and during chemo. There's lots, but when you have to take them and when you're going to treatment, your treatment days, that's all layered in the app as well. for example, for me, I know that my resting heart rate is somewhere around like 52. If I'm running, it might be like 155, but if I'm just finishing chemo, it's like 160 and I'm not doing anything So. Understanding that, okay, that's not a day to run or maybe even walk, but maybe I can do some stretches or yoga. Looking at having all the data in one place gives you that one picture. It also layers in nutrition. having a way to journal your food, similar to the MyFitnessPals of the world, where you're just typing, like, you know, these are things I'm eating and also not eating. Cause sometimes going through treatment, You really don't have an appetite, but having that big picture be helpful when we're going back to visit, our healthcare providers, right? You're meeting with your nurse and she's asking you, how's your week? at that moment, you might be like, Oh, it's great. You know, but you have that journal to kind of go and share that with your healthcare providers to say, Hey, this is actually what's going on. And that really helps. And for me, I was very blessed in that. I was able to stay active and move, but also had very minimal side effects. I lost my hair, I lost my lashes, but they came back. But I didn't have neuropathy or, any, bone issues or anything like that. And I really credit that to the fact that I was still active and very open and honest with my nurses and my oncologists, as I was going through the process. And a lot of that had to do with the fact that I journaled and I had this information with me at all times. So that's what Fitness Camp would do and empower other breast cancer patients to do is. Still staying active, even though it might look different than what you're doing today, but you have a journal of it, a way to track it. And then now that I'm on the other side, I'm looking at, okay, how am I getting back to normal? Like how, you know, how's my heart rate changing? how's my run pace changing? my time I'm lifting things like that.

My brain has come on to this, that, you're, you mentioned the data points and being like a place to, take the data that you're already using and contextualize it in your cancer treatment. it almost sounds like Fitness Can, kind of becomes a little bit like your cancer, guide or trainer. to a certain degree where, it's helping, package the whole journey into a single space where you can reference your journal, your moods, your feelings, your medications, your fitness, to really contextualize it in one place. The idea, the value of being guided or ushered through a complicated, confusing process, just has really struck a chord with me. So,

That's exactly what it is, which brings me to, I mean, what everyone's talking about, obviously, the AI portion. The data that comes from the user on this platform really does pull in different predictive analytics, but also suggestions. It's important, not just for the users, but we can go back to our providers. Like, you know, I mentioned before, I went to my oncologist, he didn't have anything, but, having this as a solution for providers to use and be able to say, Hey, I do actually have a tool for you to use. And here's some suggestions based on that to have that for their patients. In addition to that, working with pharma as well, as I mentioned, my side effects are minimal and that really coupled with me being active, but letting, like, pharma know, like, if you're certain drugs are on the market and real world evidence studies are showing. You know, you're getting different outcomes, whether it's, reduced the risk of recurrence or just better overall life expectancy, whatever that is, it's tracked here in this app by actual users who are using it every day. So, really taking AI and building on those models to do predictive analytics for the user, but also for, the providers as well as our pharma side.

Interesting. I could also see how, data and reporting of this kind could really, support some of those patient communities, where, diagnoses are not always very clear. there's not a lot of clinical documentation and patients are really forced to kind of understand, their conditions. through, community networking and sharing personal stories. being able to focus and share that data seems super valuable. You brought up an interesting thing. in healthcare innovation, especially, one of the questions that's very tricky for founders, is about the business model, right? who's paying for it, who's using it, who's providing it can all be very different in the healthcare, ecosystem and those different relationships. Who do you see as your, it seems like your user is very clear, but who is your primary customer? who's paying for these kinds of tools? And, can you talk a little bit about negotiating that side of innovation as somebody who's new to the space, but very experienced in the health space?

Absolutely. So the DTC model is really a freemium version, right? Because the value is one, putting it in the hands of the user, but also the data that comes from that. So the ultimate like end customer is really, as I mentioned, those providers, payers, and our pharma partners. there's so much that can be, that can happen, like from a payer perspective, we're looking at ways to reduce costs, right? If, if you have better outcomes, you have less ER visits, less, you know, for all the things. and then from a provider perspective, you can provide your patients with the tools they need to stay healthy and active while they're going through treatment. And then from a pharma perspective, you can see real world evidence studies of actual data There's no targeted therapy at the time there, but we know Genentech and Gilead are working on some really great, things right now on the market, which is awesome. but at the time of diagnosis, there was nothing for me. And so there was, there wasn't a lot of data, there wasn't a lot of research, and my main question was why? Like, why? And so a lot of it has to do, especially from, you know, a person, being a person of color, Black women represent less than 3 percent of clinical trials, and that's just not okay. But so how do we change that, right? And so one way I see is in real world evidence, because the data is out there, but really getting women and women of color on board, having their data be used in these trials is very helpful. And that's one of the things about the freemium version, about that is we talk about, you know, this is what. We're doing here with this day to day, we're helping each other and we're helping our daughters, right? Coming behind us. So that's really where this is really born.

What I think I just heard is, One of the coolest applications of, a freemium model. And, the freemium model is based on this idea that If you're not paying for the tool, the value of your data kind of helps pay for it. And often that's sold to ad networks and is questionable. what I'm hearing, with your approach is, leveraging, the community and the contribution to the community within, this freemium model to be very upfront and say, Hey, we collect your data to contribute to the experiences of people like you. instead of creating a potentially toxic, consumer relationship or a dark cycle, you're actually being able to be upfront and engage people in community and giving back, actually having a little bit of purpose and impact in why they would even want to share. as is witnessed by your becoming a founder, people who are impacted by these kinds of illnesses and challenges are often really motivated to fix those situations because they're awful. So, you almost empower, the next generations of people who had your same experience, while you're teaching them,

And I think it's very important, especially when it comes to clinical trials, just to educate people on it, right? And help them to understand, this is why we need this, and this is why we're doing it. because there's so much stigma from the past with clinical trials, which, so it's a double edged sword, right? We're not in the trials, or we need to be in the trials, but how do we get to the, so I think this is a good effort to get, women involved, women of color, especially involved in clinical trials by saying, this is what we're doing and we want to make sure the people behind us are, early detection. We, and right now it's one in eight women are diagnosed with breast cancer. That's, that's a lot. And we can get that number down, right? And yeah, yeah, it's a lot. And then even the 40 percent of Black women dying from breast cancer, that's, Also a lot, you know, I mean, so like we need to get those numbers down and how do we do that? And advocacy is one way, but diversity in clinical trials is a key component to that as well.

There was one idea that I want to go back to because you described, your origin story in innovation and becoming a founder as really, it doesn't sound like it was part of your plan. And it seems like it was a pretty, confident and immediate, kind of choice. Can you talk about that moment of inspiration and, Why you chose to bet on you?

Yeah, that's a great question. So as I mentioned, it's been over 15 years, in corporate, ironically working with oncology data. I started, as a pharmacy tech in ecology, drawing up oncology meds. after leaving oncology data, I went to work for a series A startup as a director of operations, still in health, still at Advocacy Equity, but I was like, let me do something different. Four months later is when I was diagnosed with breast cancer. And I was like, okay, God, you want me in oncology, right? so now my personal life, I'm back on oncology, which is fine, but it helped that, I was able to still work during treatment, which I thought was a blessing because I love the work that I do. I'm very passionate about health equity and just better equitable care, but quality care as well. So working in that space helped me. Going through treatment was one thing and I was really quiet about my treatment. I didn't share with a lot of folks. thank God for braided wigs cause I wear wigs a lot and hats or whatever. I just hid it and kept it very close to me. Only, you know, the closest people around me knew. but I wanted to go through the treatment on my own. And during that time my spiritual journey just grew as well and I had a deal with God. I said, let me get through this. And I promise when I finished, I will shout and do what I need to do. And he's holding me to that promise because, I got, like about a year ago, I think the summer of last year, Summer of 23, I got this idea, like, okay, I need to really get, I'll clean up my office and have all the data when I was like tracking myself. And I was like, I need to clean it. I need to do something with it. And this, this came to me, like, I need to develop this product. I need to do it. And so I'm like, all right, I will, you know, I'll fund it, whatever. And, but I'm still working full time and, you know, doing the, the, startup hustle. And, then like someone reached out to me and they were like, Hey, I got this, This group, they do design work. I know you were interested in Abby talking about it before. And I'm like, ah, I'll talk to them, whatever. And they were, in another country, I want to say like in the EU, but so I hopped on a call with them. It was like 4am and I'm an early bird. I talked to them and they kind of went over like, you know, they like the idea and they're willing to work with me and have a product manager background. So I'm like, oh yeah. And we talked about the cost. I'm like, I could do this. All right. let me think about it. And. That was at 4am. At 8am, I had a call with my manager and got laid off. I started looking for another job. But while I'm looking, and the market is really tough. I'm looking, I'm networking, but to keep me busy, I'm on this app, I'm working with the designers, I'm networking with other founders, and I was like so resistant, I'm a corporatepreneur, and this is what I do, but it's got so many doors closed. On that side of like, let me just get a job doing anything. And it was like door after door, close, close, close. But anytime I will lean into this space, it was like, here's someone else to help me. Here's someone. And I'm just like, all right, this is what God has me do. So I know you asked me about my motivation, but it's really God's push to me, like, I feel like I'm just walking into what he has for me. it's not easy. Like in a minute, I will take a clock in, clock out situation, but that's not what he has for me right now. So I'm just really trying to be obedient and walk into this and I see the value, you know, so it's more than just a business venture. It's really about bridging, this gap. And there's a reason why I had to go through my journey as a breast cancer, and I'm still going through it. I'm out of the weeds. I have, I still have to, you know, every six months I'm getting scans and all the things. And, but being in this space, in the community of the space as well, I know that this is my purpose. Like this is what I was designed for. This is what I need to do. so that, that's just, you know, why I'm here.

It's, in the description of this decision making process, it was really remarkable to me how the things that are related to your purpose and your experience and your vision of the world, like the unique things that go into making JennJ. We're the things that built opportunity, You said I was trying to be just anonymous, corporate, no opportunities. I'm diving into this thing that is uniquely me, that I have a vision for, everything moves. And this, is a perfect description of why people choose entrepreneurship, and why people take these hard, turns into a very hard path, Because it's almost like it's needed and you're being pulled to it, despite all of your best intentions otherwise. and it, it, like, it forces you to own that expertise, to own your passions, and to, to own that value that you bring into the room. Amazing, and congratulations that you found this, and so clearly, it's so exciting.

Yeah. Thank you.

where, I don't know that I caught it in your earlier description, but where are you in this journey? in terms of your product, and your funding, and your path? some of my next questions.

absolutely. That's a great question. So, I have a background in product and data analytics. I actually have a great team around me, like former colleagues and mentors. I have really rallied around to help me with this, and kind of like helping build it out. I have a outsourced team. That's really, like, ready to go from an iOS and Android perspective, like, building out. We got the designs together. Our next step, really, right now, is funding, securing funding to make sure we can build it, but also sustain it. One of the big pieces, and I just know this from previous roles, is very important when it comes to data to have that security feature. from HIPAA compliance, but also SOC 2, HITRUST, all the things that I know you don't want to talk about. But those are very, very important. Those are very important, and I want to make sure the data is secure. So, we're talking about that, that user. I want to make sure they feel comfortable with their data. And so, the integrity of the data is very important. As well as design, I think my designs are beautiful, but before we can launch it out into the world on the actual Android stores and, the Apple stores, we want to make sure that piece is secure. Secured and locked down the best it can be. So that way our users can really trust us in a platform because this is bigger than, you know, I'm asking them for their data in a different way. It's not about ads. It's really about giving back to this, our clinical trial space. And so that's really the important piece there. So with that comes the need for funds, right? So, I've been really focusing, these last few weeks on, like, now that I have the team, I have the product, I have the design, it's like, okay, now we need to really get this funding, start fundraising, aligning with partnerships, as well, because it's a long term vision, but the right partners. So I think that is the most important piece. there's a lot of investors out there, but we really need the right partners to drive this because there's a lot involved here, right? It's not just about business and, getting the return on investments, which is great, we're really going to change the world with this and health care, for the better. so I want to make sure I have the right partners in place. that's really my focus now is to get that on board. then we can really start building the team and getting this infrastructure down tight so that we can deliver the best possible product on the market.

Amazing. I have a product geek question for you, which is, as a marketer and somebody who's really passionate about adoption of technologies, I have a deep bias toward web based apps, but if you're talking about like integrating with wearables and data privacy and some of those other things, it almost seems like have to be in app, but that you wouldn't access to the data streams and protections you need.

So

from that's a good point. And let's put our product hats on. So we, so going to web based was definitely something we can do quickly, but we really pulled back on that because of that. And, I'm, I'm in, we talked about community earlier. I'm in a lot of groups, for like, breast cancer patients and fitness and all the things. One of the things that we all do. is we go to our apps a lot on the phone, right? So we're looking at our health apps. We're looking at Peloton apps. We're on our apps, looking at where we are. We want to see where we are on our data, like our progress, stuff like that. we're not going on the web as much, you know what I mean? Like that's like almost a hassle. So that's, so that's, that was like another reason why. So it's, it's user, you know, experience, like just getting their feedback from it, but, also the, the privacy and, you know, all those pieces as well. I love this. This is actually, one of these, internet usage trends that I'm really enjoying. My children who are in high school, really don't do web searches for anything. And like, as a marketer with a decade in digital marketing, you know, web is my go to. And so, this idea, one, congrats on learning from your audience, learning from your core users about what they need and want, and meeting them there. Most people don't. And my preference toward web is usually with that, in mind, but I love that you're highlighting, right? Like, Hey, innovators, you know, generationally, even not just the channels and how people communicate might be different, but how people search, how people engage, whether or not, you know, there's a lot of folks, millennials and older. who don't want to be on their phones, don't want to be in apps, you know, have a sort of an aversion to it. and I'm hearing from you, a generation that wants to know their data, is engaging in their goals, is looking to make some progress, and these apps are helping. I do, with my product hat still on, using web for content. Community and engagement that then helps people better connect with the apps that they'll be using more on a solo journey. seems like a great mix from, the little that I've got here. Let's put our roadmap, in front of us. And, the show is called The Glow Up. a glow up is a dramatic and noticeable transformation, Usually, over a short period of time. I'm curious, in the next six months, what are you looking to glow up? what are your big goals and plans for the work that you're doing?

Yeah, so in the next six months, I would like to have over 10, 000 users on the platform, and data models in the hands of our providers for testing. We have a clinical trials lead, and she's excited to get her hands on some stuff as well. I really want to start in the next six months. We haven't, The engagement, but the data. So our providers can start looking into that as well as our farmer partners. having those partners align with us on board in the next six months, but also ready to dive into the data and start solving problems using that data. There's so much value in it to see what's actually really going on in the real world. just having the data in their hands. So engagement one, 10, 000 users on the platform. And then two, the data. So we'd start building out those models with the providers and payers and our pharma partners are, in mind of how this data can help mold and structure what their goals are for their organizations.

Yeah, the being able to show people on the policy side, even like, the actual clinicians, what the patient experience is. The in the room nurses know, the patients know, and everybody else is guessing. And even in some of those relationships, right? I think about, chemo being notorious for brain fog. You ask this question about how have you been feeling in the last two weeks? Well, you know, How long was that? And which day is it? might be my answer. So like, having this journal, this guide, that can help, facilitate those conversations where it's hard, seems so valuable. So with these goals to grow your community, to engage in pharma, other clinical partners, what are you looking for right now? what's your call to action? how can people get involved?

Yeah. So right now I'm looking for, you know, investors and partnerships, that are really aligned with this mission of health equity, but particularly around the breast cancer space, and digital health together. Right? So that's really what I'm looking for. Even if you've done this before and you can tell me what not to do or not to go, some advisors, that'd be great as well. Or even some mentors, I'm a first time founder and I've been, really fortunate to be surrounded by a lot of colleagues that founded tons of companies in the tech space. they're able to share with me a lot of things. But I think in this space in particular, It's true to my heart because I am a patient, was a patient, but also, knowing that I know it's an uphill battle. I've been in healthcare forever, so it's an uphill battle, but linking up with that tribe of folks that can really, help me to get along and maybe even I can help them with whatever they're working with. Because we can help each other a lot in a lot of these spaces, especially when it comes to data and clinical trials.

what's the best way that people can be in touch with you?

You can reach me at info at JennJ health. I am everything. So I'm the secretary. I am the marketer. I'm all the things right now, except for the tech and clinical stuff. or you can also reach me directly at JennJHealth@gmail.com as well. I'm around. I'm in the slacks. I'm on the WhatsApps. I'm in all the groups and really just, it's been really amazing experience and during a meeting with really amazing people, brilliant people in this space and different like founders and people like you, Nathan. it's been really great. I know, like I said, God's called me to do this, but I can't fail in this space. I feel like I've already gained so much. I've already won. I've learned so much. So it's not about, I'm not worried about failing. Even if the odds are stacked against me, that's okay. I'm not going to fail.

What would you do if you wouldn't fail? if you knew you wouldn't fail? what is the audacious, end goal. what does success look like? How are you gonna look back and be like, damn, I made it. what does it look like for you?

You know, a success for me, it looks like, those partnerships I was talking about with those payers, the clinical providers, the pharma, but also seeing those numbers fall, right? I want to see that, less than 40 percent of Black women die from breast cancer now. I want to see that. overall recurrences and risks have reduced because more people are active because they have tools and they're using apps and different journals to track along. So I want to see these numbers improve, and that looks like success for me, and getting there may not look like how I have mapped out, which is okay, but the goal is to get there, right? I want to see these numbers drop down, but I also want to see breast cancer patients feel empowered. I want them to know that they are in charge of their body, their life, their treatment. They should be involved in these things and just be advocates, for themselves and the people around them. that's what I want to see, you know, so those are my large KPIs, but, getting there might look, very different and I'm okay with that. That's success to me.

How are you a first time founder? That is this? Why Because I learned so much, Jennifer. I honestly got goosebumps. when you talked about this vision, right? Because what's hard to get excited about technology is when it's like all the technical details or when it's, the buzzwords You know, what you're talking about is literally like saving people's lives, being there for people, giving them hope and companionship and strength in their hardest times. I think most people in work, in their efforts, in life, Want to make an impact, want to feel like, you know, what they spend their working on is gonna do something of value. And, what more noble cause than, Giving people hope and, the information where they can have better healthcare experiences what a great contribution, and, it's hard to get skeptical about the motivation of a company that's out there trying to actually save lives, how inspiring. I'm a little gobsmacked, so thank you. Is there, one of the options, one of the things that we do at The Glow Up is, we do make space for a community spotlight, was there an organization or community group that you wanted to, give a little shout out to? While we're here,

Yeah, I do actually. so Touch, Black Breast Cancer Awareness, it's, led by, a lady named Rikki. she was really instrumental for me in just getting information about triple negative breast cancer. When I was diagnosed, I really was searching high and low of like, where can I find more information? There's not a lot of information about it. And so, she was really, like, about that, about clinical trials, about data, and connection and community. And honestly, like you, you see me here today cause I'm literally standing on her shoulders. She's so empowering. She's so helpful. She's such a, this, this, a light in the community. I mean, I think everyone in the breast cancer space knows her. but she really is very special. it's not cliche. She's, the genuine woman that she presents to be. touch, is a great organization. They also have For the Love of My Girls, which is for younger women. My daughters are ambassadors of that brand as well. And it's very important, just understand that patient advocacy and early detection saves lives. I believe that's what saved my life. I was able to take my own lump and advocate for myself to get a mammogram, even though I was under 40 and that wasn't the protocol, being able to advocate and have that, you know, the fact that I was checking for myself really saved my life.

Jennifer Johnson, Jenn J Healthcare and Fitness. This is the 1st time. For us meeting, but I sincerely hope I get to learn from you over and over again. there were. So many great nuggets today about the importance of a vision and passion in an entrepreneur's journey. The, just amazing things that you're doing both to protect and empower healthcare data in the work that you're doing and, how, building around Your unique skills, your unique journey, your unique perspective on the world can be a wildly successful business idea because, there is indeed no one like you, and why not? Who better to bring audacious ideas into the world than you? I have learned so much today. I cannot wait to see what you do next. Thank you so much for joining us on The Glow Up.

Thank you so much.